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Post by Capt Zlogg on Dec 18, 2008 9:58:40 GMT -5
Is it permissable to fit ferry tanks to GAAR aircraft? - I'm thinking about a Short Scion but it's nominal range is under 400miles and I'm not keen on swimming. The Scion (and many other good things) can be found at www.classicbritishfiles.com. Are you sure you will finish the GAAR before Christmas 2009 in that contraption? Is that all the British Empire has on offer? Even a Tupolev Maksim is faster and crancking out miles of pamflets and bulletins from the presses in the left wing (the right wing has ample space for the latest model zaprovda!!) Proppy kindly offer his services to tank up your craft every day with his new innovative fuel at a cut rate price in rubble. cheers Capt. Zlogg vp crunch div
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Post by Andrew Godden on Dec 18, 2008 21:35:47 GMT -5
Is it permissable to fit ferry tanks to GAAR aircraft? - I'm thinking about a Short Scion but it's nominal range is under 400miles and I'm not keen on swimming. The Scion (and many other good things) can be found at www.classicbritishfiles.com. John, I will default to Bill Von Sennet for finer interpretation of the rules on eligible aircraft modifications on this one. The following are some different perspectives of how this can be interpreted: 1. the aircraft had optional external / internal tanks as part of its original design, thereby enabling the fitting of such "ferry" tanks; 2. the aircraft .cfg is modified to simulate a cabin fuel bladder or similar, as known to have been used in defined operational circumstances, e.g. Bell 206 'Kiowa' and Pilatus PC-6 'Porter' aircraft had this capability in some military applications; and 3. the aircraft.cfg is modified to simulate a cabin fuel bladder or similar, for the purposes of making it overcome the range limitations. I would offer a separate observation for consideration of aircraft choice on the basis of cruising speed, Flight Leg distance and potential weather influences. With the Short S.16 Scion (based on a cruise speed of approx 100 kts), this could involve a 3.5 to 4 hr flight time on the longest Flight Leg. Anyway, I know this doesn't answer your specific question and I hope Bill can provide more guidance. I look forward to seeing you in the event.
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Post by johnl on Dec 19, 2008 5:43:38 GMT -5
Andrew, many thanks for the reply - I look forward to Bill's ruling (either way - there are several other types I'm considering). I'm well aware that the Scion's lack of pace counts against it, and my current alternatives include aircraft which are much quicker, but still capable of coping with short gravel/grass strips.
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Post by johnl on Dec 19, 2008 5:55:39 GMT -5
[ Are you sure you will finish the GAAR before Christmas 2009 in that contraption? Is that all the British Empire has on offer? Even a Tupolev Maksim is faster and crancking out miles of pamflets and bulletins from the presses in the left wing (the right wing has ample space for the latest model zaprovda!!) Proppy kindly offer his services to tank up your craft every day with his new innovative fuel at a cut rate price in rubble. cheers Capt. Zlogg vp crunch div Comrade Zlogg, many thanks for the offer, but I suspect Proppy's wonderjuice would probably blow the gearboxes off the Scion's amazing Pobjoy Niagara stealth engines. Plan E involves hiring one of Sir Alan Cobham's aerial tanker Harrows (if they can top a a Short C in flight, a Scion should be easy). I thought about the Maksim, but decided that the flashing lights might scare the local wildlife.
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Smithy
Member
afl.com.au
Posts: 69
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Post by Smithy on Dec 19, 2008 10:58:51 GMT -5
Da...won vunders vere Viktor is undt vezer 'e evun knowz vezza gaar is on? How many potatoe sacks can be made in one year anyway... ...on another crochet, I was yapping (as opposed to barking, or just plane woofing..) with a valued member the other day and asked about said rally and his prospects upon venturing the big island and joining...the reverb was that ...the downloading of files, etc was a bit out of the grasp and that as they had not really done such things (and found it be a bit befuzzling) they may not bother entering said event. I could of course make a link to it and schpeel off about how its done...but as I understand what goes on and how it gets sorted, others do not and are left guessing, wondering, or worst of all not even bothering. I was wondering if Tom could just give a brief summary on how to install the ftimer and also the download for the weatherfx files... ~over the years pilots learn a great deal of info, but it mostly pertains to that of flying rather than modify-ing. I think a little bit of a shoe horn is needed to give a hud, that shows the ease for those not in the no as such. Salut' Smithy ...and merry christmas to all and sundries vp_intercontinentalcrickectbatmachine.div dobro great set up there Andrew, top job!!!
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Post by Andrew Godden on Dec 19, 2008 17:21:22 GMT -5
Smithy,
Point taken.
As you would be familiar with the GAAR 2007, I have kept to that same simple format for the necessary files. Instructions will be included for the necessary weather files. These instructions already exist for the Test Flight download on the Test Flight page and will be the same for the downloads for the Flight Legs.
The FTime flight timer does need a little more fiddling with panel.cfg file edits. Instructions are included in the zip file, but if you haven't done anything like that before, I can appreciate it can still be daunting. If my memory serves me well, Tom contributed to the Forum in GAAR 2007 to provide more explanation. Between Bill, Tom and myself, I will see if we can dig up that old post.
Otherwise, from my perspective, whatever I can do to help in the interests of others being able to join the GAAR and enjoy the event, I will.
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Post by bgak011 on Dec 19, 2008 19:39:20 GMT -5
Andrew, X-Plane 9 uses a text based weather file, that looks like a regular METAR weather report. I don't remember what format FS9 or FS10 used, but it must have been a METAR file at one time. If you happen to have an old FS9 or FS10 weather file (in a text format) laying around, would you e-mail it to me. I would like to see if I can edit the X-Plane file to make it the same. Here is a few lines from my X-Plane 9 sample:
2008/12/06 14:45 KONX 061445Z AUTO 11003KT 10SM CLR 07/01 A3016 RMK AO2
2008/12/06 14:45 KONX 061445Z AUTO 11003KT 10SM CLR 07/01 A3016 RMK AO2
2008/12/06 14:45 KRSN 061445Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 01/M01 A3018 RMK AO2
I still want to fly GAAR 2009, just for FUN!!!
Coleman
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Post by Bill Von Sennet on Dec 20, 2008 12:05:02 GMT -5
INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE FTIME GAUGE
The FTime v3 gauge measures and displays elapsed flight time from the time the airspeed reaches 35 knots on the takeoff roll. The time is desplayed in decimal minutes to the nearest 1/100th. After the plane lands it will stop counting when your aircraft decelerates below 35 knots. It will show the total elapsed time for the flight. It will continue to show that until the aircraft accelerates to 35 knots again. Then it will begin counting time from 0.00 for the new flight.
To install this gauge, first copy the TG_Digital folder into your aircrafts panel folder. Then put the gauge on the panel of one of your aircraft by inserting a line similar to the one shown below in the panel.cfg file (in the Panel Folder) for the selected aircraft.
gauge59=TG_Digital!FTime, 608, 373, 90, 49
This line works with typical DC-3 panels as shown in the accompanying .jpg file. Make sure the gauge number is greater than any existing gauge number. That shows the panel in Bill Von Sennet's DC-3
For other panels you will have to adjust the X, y coordinates until it is in a position you like.
It will work properly only if you begin each flight with the aircraft on the ground. If you "pop" into the aircraft while it is flying, you must land it and then take off before the timer will begin working properly.
This version actually measures the time the aircraft is moving faster than 35 KIAS. This way it will work with DC-3's that bounce on landings!
This was developed for use in races.
This gauge is in the public domain
Have fun,
Tom Goodrick CEO of Tango Golf Aeronautics
Instructions modified 9-December 2006 for compatibility with FSX
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Post by Bill Von Sennet on Dec 20, 2008 12:09:10 GMT -5
Is it permissable to fit ferry tanks to GAAR aircraft? - I'm thinking about a Short Scion but it's nominal range is under 400miles and I'm not keen on swimming. The Scion (and many other good things) can be found at www.classicbritishfiles.com. I have no objection to your making the tanks a bit larger. Several Short Scions made their way to Australia, so they must have added some tankage.
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Post by rattler1 on Dec 20, 2008 16:03:05 GMT -5
Bill, there's been a slight modification of the FTimer in the last few days. (I had to completely re-install Fs9 following a computer crash, and the new timer instructions are slightly different) Instead of installing the file into the aircraft's panel folder, it suggests putting it in the main gauges folder. then you only need to add the line of programming to the desired aircraft's panel.cfg file. It saves having to load the program for each aircraft. I can't swear to it, but it worked for the Valetta, which is at Sharjah (UAE) now, on its way to Oz.
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Post by Andrew Godden on Dec 20, 2008 18:44:14 GMT -5
I have no objection to your making the tanks a bit larger. Several Short Scions made their way to Australia, so they must have added some tankage. Bill, Thanks for clarifying that. I couldn't recall an example of this from past GAARs. I propose to add this to the Rules with the wording something along these lines "...ferry tanks may be fitted to the aircraft provided the total aircraft weight is still within the MTOW limitations of the aircraft and / or the ferry tanks represent a capacity no greater than 10% of the normal fuel capacity of the aircraft...". I hope this is considered reasonable without allowing ridiculous modifications. If anyone else has any views or comments, both positive or negative, please feel welcome to post them. A comment even just confirming the approach is reasonable is welcome.
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Post by Chris Ross on Dec 20, 2008 19:32:54 GMT -5
I hope this helps people who may want to explore a little deeper
After right clicking on your panel folder and clicking open using notepad this is what you get
This is for the “PBY Catalina”
//-------------------------------------------------------- [Window00] file=main.bmp size_mm=1024,768 position=7 visible=1 ident=1 window_size= 1.000, 1.000 window_pos= 0.000, 0.000
gauge00=Mooney_Bravo!Clock, 300, 5, 70, 41 gauge01=pby_airspeed!pby_airspeed, 70,454,140,140 gauge02=Cessna!Attitude, 212,454,140,140 gauge03=Cessna!Altimeter, 354,454,140,140 gauge04=Cessna!Turn_Indicator, 70,602,140,140 gauge05=Cessna!Vertical_Speed, 355,602,140,140 gauge06=Cessna!Pitch_Trim, 5,420, 36, 80 gauge07=p38f_lightning!Engine-Control-Unit,760, 5,180,150 gauge08=pby_fuel1!pby_fuel1, 680, 5, 80, 79 gauge09=pby_fuel2!pby_fuel2, 940, 5, 80, 79 gauge10=Digital!Digital_AoA, 260,400, 40, 15 gauge11=Digital!Digital_ELVTRIM, 43,428, 40, 15 gauge12=fs9gps!gps_500, 650,420,350,350 gauge13=Digital!Digital_Hrs, 560, 25, 40, 20 gauge14=TG Timer!Digital_AGL, 536,354, 64, 24 gauge16=Digital!Digital_TAS, 619,313, 64, 24 gauge17=KingAir!Hsi, 212,602,140,132 gauge18=DC3Gauges!manifold, 700,300,120,120 gauge19=DC3Gauges!rpm, 830,300,120,120 gauge20=chris_gauges!Autopilot, 308,358,200, 73 gauge21=KingAir!Rmi, 500,600,140,134 gauge22=chris_gauges!Clock, 83,379,171, 66 gauge23=gquges!Throt1, 470, 25, 40, 20 gauge24=KingAir!Landing_Gear, 6,543, 46, 76 gauge25=KingAir!Landing_Gear_Indicator, 15, 509, 30, 26 gauge26=TG Timer!Digital_CG, 8, 656, 50, 20 gauge27=TG Timer!FTime, 621, 346, 64, 48
It’s probably best to copy and paste the gauge file line from the included notes and change the gauge number so it is larger than the previous number
__1__________2________3______4_____5____6___7 gauge27=__TG Timer!___FTime,___621,__346,__64,__48
An explanation of the line and the significance of its contents
1 The address of the gauge in the “Panel CFG”
2 This tells FS where to look for the gauge, where the gauge file is located in your computer
3 Tells FS the name of the gauge
4 Tells the FS where to put the gauge in you cockpit on the “X line” from left side of cockpit to the right Lower numbers to the left
5 Tells the FS where to put the gauge in you cockpit on the “Y column” from the top of cockpit to the bottom Lower numbers to the top
# If the gauge is not where you want it experiment with 4 and 5 to move the gauge around the cockpit
# BE CAREFUL you don’t make 4 or 5 TOO BIG or the gauge will disappear off the cockpit
6 Tells FS how wide to make the gauge
7 Tells FS how tall to make the gauge
# If the gauge ends up too big or small experiment with 6 and 7 to make it fit
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Post by woodhick803 on Dec 21, 2008 7:14:48 GMT -5
Quoted from A. Godden above: "If anyone else has any views or comments, both positive or negative, please feel welcome to post them. A comment even just confirming the approach is reasonable is welcome."
My view is to allow a MTOW of 20% greater than normal. Aircraft can fly under an "X" (experimental) waiver. Yes, this is another reason why careless pilots crash, but in flight sim the penalties are somewhat less serious than might normally be experienced.
All this is, of course, IMHO and FWIW.
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Post by johnl on Dec 22, 2008 8:19:20 GMT -5
I propose to add this to the Rules with the wording something along these lines "...ferry tanks may be fitted to the aircraft provided the total aircraft weight is still within the MTOW limitations of the aircraft and / or the ferry tanks represent a capacity no greater than 10% of the normal fuel capacity of the aircraft...". I hope this is considered reasonable without allowing ridiculous modifications. If anyone else has any views or comments, both positive or negative, please feel welcome to post them. A comment even just confirming the approach is reasonable is welcome. 10% extra tankage seems not worth the effort - I was thinking of adding about 65% to the Scion (2x9gallon tanks in the cabin fitted with wobble pumps to allow transfer to the wing-root mains, and give the passenger(s) some inflight exercise. Definitely NOT considering going over MTOW - that sort of thing may be all right for military ops, but can lead, at the very least, to lost licences! WW2 ferry tanks for C-47s came in pairs allowing up to 100% additional extra tankage. Postwar EKGann ferried a DC-3 fitted with a pair of 400gallon rubberised tanks. Prewar I have much less info. That splendid antipodean Dr Clyde Fenton fitted an additional main tank into the front seat of a DH60X (or DH60M?) Moth (about 80% additional?) to give him the necessary range on the oversea legs between Darwin and China - he had to unbelt, stand up, and reach forward to the front cockpit to pump fuel to the main tank while flying at 200ft in a wet monsoon. However, discussion of extra tankage may be a touch academic, as I have renewed my interest in the HP/Miles Marathon (and several others, although I feel squeamish about landing the lovely Short Sealand - or any other amphibian - on gravel).
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Post by Quark on Dec 22, 2008 12:18:16 GMT -5
INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE FTIME GAUGE ....... This way it will work with DC-3's that bounce on landings...... You mean DC-3's aren't supposed to bounce on landing?
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