Aero Commander CFIT near Pheonix last week

[Joe]

All six people aboard, including three kids, were killed when an Aero Commander flew into a mountain ridge shortly after departing Phoenix. A factor of note is that the surrounding Class B airspace floor had recently been dropped from 8,000 ft to 5,000 ft-- an altitude lower than the ridge. In other words, the pilot was probably trying to fly under the airspace when he hit the ridge.
The pilot was the father of three of his small children who he had picked up for a flight home for thanksgiving.

www.flyingmag.com/news/video-footage-captures-arizona-crash?cmpid=enews112911

FLYING editor Robert Goyer's thoughts:

www.flyingmag.com/blogs/going-direct/arizona-tragedy-superstition-mountains-crashs-sad-lessons?cmpid=enews112911?cmpid=enews112911

Not surprisingly, his thoughts are to fix the problem with a gadget, in this case TWAS. This time it's true.
More poignant, IMHO, are the comments directly below Goyer's piece by a local pilot who flew the same airplane in that area.

[louross]

Well. That's sad. It really is.
However, two pilots on board- is that correct? What were they doing? Neither one was reading the altimeter? Neither one knew the safe altitudes for the area? Are you a RW pilot? Better think about those questions.
A solution given had something to do with an electronic warning system. How about basic airmanship? I specifically remember when the "TERRAIN! TERRAIN! BELOW GLIDESLOPE!" warnings began screaming in the cockpit giving pax in the back heart attacks. We'd turn that stuff off as soon as we could get it off. Fly the airplane, and know where you are. Basically, be a pilot.
lou.

[Joe]

Yes, I'm a RW pilot, but have never flown near mountains, just in the Ozarks.

www.flyingmag.com/news/arizona-crash-update-video-recreation-new-questions-emerge

I'm not sure why they were on the heading they were on. KSAD was towards a more southerly course. If you look at this video recreation, they flew right at the one point that put them in the most danger.
Also, the plane apparently did have TWAS. The commentor also said it's common to at least hesitate before reacting to a TWAS warning, plus in this scenario they may have not wanted to pull up into the Class B traffic.
Yeah, I agree with you, be a pilot. That's another confusing thing about all this-- the pilot was no noobie or even a noobie to that area.

[louross]

Well, I hope you didn't take what I said personal, I meant the remarks as a more general idea to any pilot, not necessarily you in particular.
However, there is another point. I know nothing about that type a/c. Was it a single? Before I went with the airlines I did all kinds of flying- for money and for time- mainly time. I was constantly chastised for flying SEL at night ( I grew up with airline pilots who had been either WWII pilots or military flight instructors). After a stint with the airlines- I understood why. Things happen. I wouldn't get into a single-engine airplane now at night for anything.
These things happen. A good friend of mine screwed up a visual approach in a 727 and hit short of the runway. People died. He was responsible. It is understandable his doing what he did- it's done all the time, but he was too high, and should have broken off the approach. He made a bad decision. 737 crew flew into Lk. Michigan one night. Clear as a bell. Misread their altimeter by 10,000 ft. Hit the water. You got to pay attention.
Flying a 737 one day, real short flight, real low altitude. We were south thru an area, NW 747 being vectored for approach. "Approach, whose the 2-holer in front of us?" " That's xxx, 737 at 7,000," Approach responded. "We're making a left turn to miss him- he's right in front of us."
I was co-pilot, and my head spun to the right. He was several miles west of us in a left turn. Right at out altitude- at least it appeared so. "XXX your assigned altitude is 7000 thousand, altimeter, three zero nine two. NW xxx, you got the altimeter setting?" Approach again. "Well, XXX is at 7 thou," responded the Capt, fairly new, too.
"Ahhh, shxt," I said to him quietly. "Reset your altimeter to three zero nine two. Me, if it were me, I'd reduce power, hold attitude, and let it settle- otherwise NW'll see us descending to seven."
The maintenance dept had run a periodic check on the altimeter system last night setting the altimeter to 29 92. We both had glanced at the altimeter setting and noted the nine two part- but neither of us actually looked at the three zero part.
Things happen. Did I learn something there?
Thanks to the 737 and 77 time, I flew left seat in Twin Otters, left that company for another one flying B99's. Many times had to back-up a co-pilot who messed up one way or another. That's just part of the job. I really wouldn't want to be flying Capt today with 300 hr. C150 co-pilots. Most the guys back then had to have at least a thousand hrs, and most had single pilot night mail expereience, or had been with smaller "feeder companies", like Central or Bonanza and gotten laid off for one reason or another.
Anyhow,
(is it perfume from a dress, that makes me digress? well, there will be time to...)
lr.

[Joe]

No, I didn't take it personally at all. You've made some astute comments.

The Aero Commander is a twin, a pretty good plane for that sort of flight. There's a great model for FS9 that is one of my favorite flightsim planes ever. I'm thinking the accident aircraft was one of the 590 turboprop variants. I think KSAD was only a little over a hundred miles to the SE.

I'd love to fly at night, but haven't since I got my PPL. I recall asking my instructor during night training what to do if I lost the engine at night. He said something like to configure for best glide and "then when you think you're close enough to the ground, turn on your landing light-- if you like what you see, leave it on, if you don't, turn it back off again." He personally thought night flight should be illegal for PPL and urged me not to fly at night until I'd built up some hours and came back for more instruction. Then he said, "You notice how there's no solo night cross country requirement? But legally you can fly to your PPL exam, get your ticket, and then fly back at night all by yourself if you want to. It's stupid."

[Chris Ross]

Interesting read guys, thanks for sharing yor thoughts

[Chris Ross]

Interesting read guys, thanks for sharing yor thoughts

[Joe]

I tried this w/ FS at night in the Baron in fairly clear whether. It's about as dark as flightsim gets. The area is both the Superstition Mountains and the Superstition Wildlife Area, so there must not be any civilization at all.

I was a little left of my courseline for a bit after take-off, and without making a decent course correction I was in harm's way. Looking at the terrain map on the GPS it was easy enough, though.

I wish FS had variable cockpit lights like real airplanes. I can't imagine the coding for that would be difficult, even for virtual cockpits.

[Tom Goodrick]

Panel Lighting in my Baron is great - if you turn it on. If too bright, tap S for a good view of the mountain you're about to hit. Las Vegas is another place with killer mountains at night.

Here's the line, under [lights] in the aircraft.cfg file that determines the X,Y,Z of the lights and the particular light function:
light.7 = 4, -7.90, 0.00, 2.70, fx_vclight,

I have an excellent example of the Commander 690 turboprop by Milton Shupe's crew of designers. To get one, go to avsim and do a search on "Shupe". You'll also get a number of references to other aero commanders (piston and turbprop) by Shupe's team.

Oops! Mine is called a Rockwell Turbo Commander 690B VC Model Copyright 2005, Veneaviones developed by Ramirez, Perdomo & Rojas. It sure looks like a Shupe model (Meaning good). Avsim also has a 680 version by Shupe. (Could be turbocharged piston).

[Joe]

How would that work, Tom? I tried to lower and move rearward those values, hoping they corresponded to the light source, but couldn't tell any difference. I'm going for dimmer.

I could not remember who made that Aero Commander. Didn't Shupe et all also do a very good Dash 7? I think I flew one that in one of the Australia races.