FS SOUND FILES

FS SOUND FILES Sept 4, 2008 9:59:21 GMT -5

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Post by Tom Goodrick on Sept 4, 2008 9:59:21 GMT -5

« FS Sound Files »

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We should start another thread here to discuss sound files - files we have for various aircraft and how to modify them.

I have been developing a new sound file for the C-119 based on components from two other sound files, one from the B314 and one from the DC-3. An interesting thing is that the sound file for the B314 is really made up of old sound files for a C47. I know two techniques. One is simply editing a sound.cfg file to incorporate components from various other sound files anf the other is direct editing of the audio of wave files using a music editing program. Unfortunately I no longer have that sort of audio editing capability since the version of Sound Forge I had years ago is not usable on this computer. There are probably many other sound editors, some freeware that can be used. Essentually, you apply sound equalization software to boost or reduce certain frequencies.

I found the B314 files did not have prop sounds. I took the primary pro sounds from the DC-3 and inserted them into the new sound folder for the C-119. I added wind sound from the DC-3. I boosted it a little.

The result is an "improved" sound for large radial piston engines. The sound is very complex and interesting.

I have not yet made sense of the rparams and vparams portions of the sound.cfg file. I simply copy both the wav files and the portions of the sound.cfg file that name the wav file.
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #1 on: May 11th, 2008, 11:51am » Quote Modify Remove

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I have learned a few more things about the sound files. I've been reading the ACSDK. Some things are a bit more clear and other things that have been explained are still mysterious to me.

The sound.cfg file controls the sound by giving a list of sounds for various flight events. Each event identifies a wav file, sets flags indicating under what circumstances the sound is to be used and specifies both volume (vparams) and frequecy (rparams) "envelopes" for the application of that sound. It seems that a lot of the flags are set improperly in our commonly used sound files. For prop sounds, flag=2 for max pitch, =4 for min pitch and =8 for reverse pitch. I have not seen this used.

I don't understand what they mean by "envelopes." To me, an envelopoe is a rectangle in X-Y space with Y being up and X being across. If that applies here, what is the X axis? The Y axis is either frequency or volume. The X axis values that go with these envelope-defining statements are between 0.0 nad 1.0 and are "generic". Generic what?

This is all based on wav files and you can listen to them by simply clicking on the wav files. When you do this, Windows can provide an graphic representation of the audio - an actual spectrum analyzer that is very handy at making some sense of the sounds. My son Scott set mine up and I don't know exactly how he did it but he assigned a basic Windows file to the sound and I use it in various nodes when listening to music. But "Ocean Mists" is a very good spectrum analysis tool without the cumbersome numbers.

There are several wav files supplied by Microsoft and listed in the Sound Folder that lies in the main section of the FS9 folder. Several of these can be very useful. For most cockpits the file wind_general.wav is a good one. The DC-3 sound.cfg file shows how to use it. I put it in the B314 sound and played with its levels and speed parameters. The volumn range of this shouls be varied on different aircraft, depending on the windshield design. There is another file called eind_opencockpit.wav that works the same way and should be used for open cockpits. I am going to put it into my Aerobat and P-22 sound folders. My Parafoil and Skydiver can use that too!

As for the relation of sound to Prop or to Throttle controls, it is not clear. Here is the sound list from the Baron:
[SOUND_ENGINE]
number_of_engines=2
eng1_combustion=COMBUSTION.1.00
eng2_combustion=COMBUSTION.2.00
eng1_prop=PROP.1.00
eng1_starter=starterA
eng2_starter=starterB
eng1_shutdown=shutdownA
eng2_shutdown=shutdownB
eng1_combustion_start=combstartA
eng2_combustion_start=combstartB
eng2_prop=PROP.2.00

Now consider these sections:

[COMBUSTION.1.00]
filename=baron_rpm1_left
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.000000,0.977000,1.000000,1.682000
vparams=0.000000,49.000000,0.002000,49.600000,0.171000,50.400000,0.23600 0,
9.600000,0.264000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,1.000000, 0.000000
link=COMBUSTION.1.01

[PROP.1.00]
filename=baron_prop1a_left
flags=2
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.000000,1.000000,0.262000,1.000000
vparams=0.192000,0.000000,0.326000,6.600000,0.481000,8.000000,0.692000,
0.000000,0.697000,0.000000,0.697000,0.000000,0.697000,0.000000,0.697000, 0.000000
link=PROP.1.01

All the combustion file names include "rpm" while none of the prop files do. This may be the source of Cam's complaint aganst some sound files. I don't know which files are keyed to which controls.

I found a variety of prop sounds in the various aircraft. But there is one in the general MS sound folder called "prop.wav" that sounds like it should be at least included along with other wav files in a PROP section. Its spectrum had descrete sections where the others had continuous spread over the frequency range. I will experiment with this.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 11:56am by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.36

Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #2 on: May 11th, 2008, 11:01pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I made more progress. I found that the prop sound files should all be set with flags 2 and 4. Flag 2 sets the sound for max prop blade pitch and flag = 4 sets the sound for minimum prop blade pitch. Thus it seems the prop sound for a controllable pitch aircraft does not depend directly on RPM but on prop pitch. But prop pitch varies with rpm in a particular way, depending on the prop loading as well as the rpm setting. The best way to experience this is to tutrn on my PowerPanel and watch the blade pitch angle as well as the rpm, prop lever and throttle positions. Do this while listening to a correct and complete sound file and it will begin to make some sense. You may have to use headphones so you can crank up the volume without getting thrown out of the house!

The strange thing was that, when I figured all this out, I went looking for a sound folder that had everything in it. The only one I found was the original (default) sound folder for the Beech King Air 350! Of well, a prop is a prop, regardless of what powerplant is turning it.

Pick a sound folder for the aircraft you want to work with. The B314 folder or the DC-3 folder are good ones. Then edit the sound.cfg file to contain statements copied from the King Air 350 sound.cfg for the following:
engine1 internal prop flag 2
engine1 internal prop flag 4
engine1 external prop flag 2
engine1 external prop flag 4

same for engine2.

Make a list of all the prop file names listed in the sound.cfg for the King Air 350 and copy them into the new sound folder.

This will go a long way toward creating a realistic sound file for a radial piston twin.

I was very surprised that neither the default folders for the Baron or for the DC-3 have all these files.

Everyone has heard the sound of prop planes warming up and cycling the props. With these you will be able to do that and hear the results both inside the aircraft and as a bystander on the field.

Of course the next step is to fine tune these by adjusting the rparams and vparams.

I was going to concentrate on setting this up for a single before doing a twin because you have half the files to transfer. But the prop sounds are quite different for twins compared to singles. But I will try that next.

The ubiquitous C182 sound is going to be replaced.

Oh yeah. The C-119 sound is now very good and suitably sickening.

One question not yet resolved is how a sound set up for a twin-engine aircraft can work in a four-engine aircraft as the B314 sound does. I use it also in a DC-6.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 11:02pm by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.65

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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #3 on: May 12th, 2008, 11:15am » Quote Modify Remove

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That special sound file I use to "see" wav files is none other than Windows Media Player which all of you have. You might have to assign it to read wav files. "Ocean Mist" is the visualizer that duplicates the function of an audio spectrum analyzer. It shows the relative volume of sound components at all the audible frequencies. I just used it to listen to music. That is a good thing to do to calibrate your mind before using it to look at FS wav files. High trumpet or piano sounds tickle the middle frequencies while higher harmonics from violins or reed instruments will tickle the upper frequencies. I just listened to Henry Mancini & His Orchestra Greatest Hits. The tenor sax on Unchained Melody was particularly well done. That's the way I try to play it. I've also played many trombone solos like the one on Till There Was You. No matter how "high" the trombonist plays, he can't tickle the high frequencies.

Another album that is good for spectrum analysis is Kenny G's Paradise album. Note the soprano sax on many pieces such as Ocean Breeze and compare to the tenor sax he plays on Midnight Magic. Both have high frequemcy harmonics.
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 11:48am by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.162 216.180.4.14

Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #4 on: May 12th, 2008, 7:02pm » Quote Modify Remove

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Well, instead of playing Wii golf, I spent the afternoon flying and tweaking sound files. I have gone around and around with various ideas and am back at square one. The way this sound system is set up makes no sense to me.

The main sound we here in an airplane, or just out side is caused by the prop an should be related to the rpm.

Inside we get both the propslapping air agains the fuselage in a twin and air influenced by the prop coming back around the fuselage and wings and feeding prop sound into the aircraft. for a single.

So all they give us to work with are two prop sound files, one proportional to the blade angle for low angles up to the max angle, and one proportional to the blade angle above the minimum. The only files that are proportional to the rpm are the COMBUSTION files. The blade angle varies with prop load, not with rpm. I'll make up a table of steady state blade angles at various speeds and power angles.

The other thing that bothers me is that, while we are working directly with wav files, I don't think the wav files are supposed to have much to do with the sound we hear. The frequency and volume "envelopes" - still don't know what those are - seem to take portions of the sound, run it back to us as the short bursts of sound repeated preiodically so it becomes a new sound that we hear - unrelated to the wav files.

Time for some other minds to get involved here.
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #5 on: May 13th, 2008, 11:48am » Quote Modify Remove

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Here is a set of data from a nominal flight in the Beech Bonanza showing how blade angle varies as other conrols are adjusted. Obviously, there is no direct control. Note that the range of prop blade angle set in the aircraft.cfg file is 15.0 to 43.0 degrees. Max angle is 28.2 degrees at cruise when RPM is reduced and throttle is increased for a "quieter" cruise at 75% power.

BLADE PITCH CHECK
AIRCRAFT: BONANZA V35B
SOUND: C182 MODIFIED

THROTTLE_ PROP_ MIX_ POWER_ RPM___ BLADE_ KIAS__ ALT__REMARKS
___0.5______100____100____8.3_______962__15.0_______0___ 630___parked KHSV
__12.2______100____100___36.0______1603__15.0______15___ 630___taxiing
_100_______100____100___284_______2698__19.0______33___ 630___start takeoff
_100_______100____100___285_______2700__20.2______80___ 630____rotating
_100_______100____100___278_______2700__20.8_____102___1160____reducing power
_100_______87.5____100___249.9_____2500__22.4_____111___2260____climbing
_100_______87.5____74.2__244.3______2500__22.7_____118___3110____leaning
_100_______87.5____61.3__231.9______2500__23.0_____124___4600____leaning more
_100_______87.5____61.3__227.5______2500__24.8_____144___5030____levelli ng off
_100_______87.5____58.9__228.6______2500__26.3_____164___5000____80% cruise 175 KTAS
__94.1_____87.5____58.9__214.1______2500__25.6_____161___5000____75% cruise 24 in MAP
__97.7_____75.0____58.9__214.1______2300__28.2_____160___5000____75% cruise quieter?!
__79.3_____75.0____58.9__171.5______2300__25.9_____148>__5000____slowing for descent
__54.3_____62.1____58.9__113.4______2093__26.1_____148>__4000____descend ing
__54.3_____62.1____58.9__118.4______2093__24.6_____135>__3000____gear
__75.4_____61.3____100__170.0______2081__24.9______114___1500____flaps
__59.0_____100_____100__157.3_____2700___16.3_____102____1100____400 agl
__38.3_____100_____100__95.2______2413___15.0______81_____800_____
__0.5______100_____100__11.3______1172___15.0_______9_____640_____on ground

Notes: prop range 15.0 to 43.0
Landing at KBHM: 76.11 kias, -86 fpm
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #6 on: May 13th, 2008, 7:59pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I guess we can all discard my old turboprop sound folder. I looked at the sound.cfg file to see how it handled the prop sounds and IT DOESN'T!

So I looked at the new King Air 350 osund file (the one that came with our copies of FS9). It has all the right elements including six different wav files for props for each engine and four different prop sounds as COMBUSTION sounds for each engine. That's kind of wild. listen to the four wav files: kan21, kan22, kan23 and kan24. These are all wav files of props yet they are in the COMBUSTION section, not the PROP section. In the COMBUSTION section they will change with the RPM.

Yet each of those files has a prop sound at different frequencies increasing from 1 through 4.

It must be possible, by messing around with the vparams, to reduce the volume on some of the sound components we don't like and bring out the ones we do like - notably those related to the prop but varying with the RPM.

I haven't listened to that original sound folder for a long time. Today I did it with earphones. It has components I like but much of it is too noisy - machinery sounds that drown out the prop sounds. That doesn't seem right. It should be possible to fix things by lowering the volume in the vparam statements for the sounds that should not be so loud. I'll give it a try.
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #7 on: May 13th, 2008, 11:04pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I am having good success. It will take a while to tweak everything just right. I found another King Air sound folder in the King Air C90GT I recently downloaded. The sound.cfg file is done by Leon Medado. He did essentially what I was starting to do. I think he has reduced the volume of some things a bit too much. He put some of the prop files developed for the combustion into the Prop sections. This creates two identical files, one that changes with prop beta angle and one that changes with RPM. That seems to be a conflict.

I am finding it is easy to make noise. It is hard to make the right sound.

If you want to try, take one of the Combustion statements in in the sound.cfg file such as:

[COMBUSTION.1.02]
filename=kan23
flags=0
viewpoint=1
rparams=0.000000,0.831000,1.000000,1.569000
vparams=0.285000,0.000000,0.424000,19.200000,
0.523000,43.600000,0.731000,50.000000,
0.801000,17.600000,1.000000,0.000000,
1.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
link=COMBUSTION.1.03

The vprams= line contains eight pairs of values. In each pair the first is a generic position, 0 to 1, along the width of the wave envelope. Each of the second values in a pair is a volume level that can be 0 to 100. Try reducing the volumes by a half and see what happens. Note that if you change 1.02 you must change 2.02 for the engine on the right side.

I still have no idea what the "generic position numbers really stand for" and therefore can see no sense in changing them any particular way. I think, like the rparams, you only need two pairs with a position of 0 and 1.
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #8 on: May 14th, 2008, 11:40am » Quote Modify Remove

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I made a major improvement in single-engine sound and figured out how to use the rparams at the same time.

I've had the ide for a day or two to make a single engine sound from half the Baron sound because that is a pretty good sound. I did it this morning for the Beech A36 which makes sense because it is half a Baron. I wrote a new sound.cfg file by copying only the left engine sounds (and the general sounds) from the Baron). I copied all the wav files from the Baron into an A36 sound folder and then deleted all pertaining to the right engine.

That worked pretty good. But it was still missing any significant dependence on the RPM. So I added an extra COMBUSTION section that uses the prop.wav from the general FS9 Sound folder. I set it up with moderate volume level across the "envelope" (0 to 1). It added an interesting character to the sound. But I had made the frequency envelope straight across with an rparams line of 0,1.0,1.0,1.0. So, on a hunch, I changed that line to 0.0,0.7,1.0,3.0. The idea was that, if the frequency of combustion files does vary with RPM, let it go up by three octaves. That corresponds to the ratio of high to low RPM. BINGO. It works and sounds great. I also beefed up another Combustion section that was only partially used. I do not understand why the vparams would be used to silence about two thirds of the wave. This change brings more of the engine hum into variation with RPM.

The result is pretty darn good. Start it up and let it rumble a bit. you can feel the power there. Do a takeoff and hear the full authority of the 300 hp roaring down the runway. I also reduced the sounds of the flaps and gear. I don't think you can hear them too well with that big engine roaring up in front.

This one is ready to go. You can use it in any large single. I will revisit the Cessna 182 and give it an individual adjustment. I made some changes the other day but now I can do better.

I have emailed the sound.cfg file to many of you. If you do not get it in a day or so, let me know. I found the whole folder zipped down to 6 megs with most of it wasted on Baron wave files you already have. So with this sound.cfg file you ahve only a small amount of work to make a usable sound folder. Once installed in an aircraft, you can alias it for other similar aircraft.
« Last Edit: May 14th, 2008, 1:14pm by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.173 216.180.4.177

Allen_Peterson
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #9 on: May 14th, 2008, 7:01pm » Quote Modify Remove

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Thanks for the sound file, Tom, I'm leaving in in a folder in my email.
I'm using a borrowed laptop because my computer developed a nasty virus, even though I'm very careful about downloading and have - and use - the the latest version of my antivirus program.
I could boot the computer to C:\ from the CD ROM but when I looked at the folders in the root directory they all showed 0 files. My computer guy - he set it up originally - has it now and I'm hopeful that he can restore them. I haven't heard back from him, it's been 2 days and I'm going crazy.
I'm bad about backing up, though. The last time I backed up my fs files was July '07, so even if he can restore them I still have a lot of work to do.
And I was just getting into VLJs...
So wish me luck.
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Have a good day.
Allen

Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #10 on: May 14th, 2008, 7:33pm » Quote Modify Remove

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Good luck, Allen. Boy I hope that doesn't happen to me. I backed up FS on a CD a while ago. I'll do it again soon.

I have developed a version of the sound file for the Baron that uses the same technique. It sounds pretty good to me. Of ciorse most of my twins use the Baron files by alias. That promted me to wonder "Do we really want all our twins sounding like Barons and all our singles sounding like the C182 or the A36? The answer is "Of course not!"

So I came up with a good way of revising the FS setup on my system so that I can customize the sounds for each individual aircraft without carrying a whole big bunch of duplicate files.

FS9 carries sound wav files for use in the aircraft sound in two places - the sound folder in the aircraft file and the sound folder in the FS9 folder. Yes, there is a general sound folder for FS9 that most of us have been overlooking. The sound.cfg file must reside in the aircraft folder. But it can list files both in the same aircraft file or in the general sound folder for FS9.

When we load an aircraft, just as in making up a temporary folder holding all the gauges for the panel, the computer gets all the listed wav files from either source and puts them in the same temporary file. Then when the sim runs, it can quickly use all the files it needs from those temporary folders.

To customize our aircraft sounds for all twins using the baron-type sound and for all singles using the A36-type sound, all we have to do is copy the entire sound folder from the Baron into FS9 so that the contents of the Baron sound folder all go into the general sound folder.

Then delete the Baron sound folder. (I saved mine just in case this didn't work.) make a new empty baron sound folder and go into the general sound folder and find the sound.cfg file that was in your baron folder - hopefully my new version - and cut and paste it into the new blank baron sound folder. You can then revise all the sound folders in all the aircraft that use the baron sound and copy the new sound.cfg folder into each of them.

Finally, you can tweak each sound.cfg file to suit the personality of each aircraft. If it has less power, reduce the volume of all sections a little bit. Increase or decrease the volume of the wind sound. These changes will be in effect only on the aircraft into which you have put the tweaked sound.cfg. Not all twins will sound alike.

The A36 sound uses a subset of the baron wav files. Once you make this change of location for the baron wav files, you will not have to worry about keeping that specific subset in the aircraft sound files. You just need a sound.cfg file there too.

I just put panning statements into each of the lines in my revised sound.cfg for the baron so engine 1 sounds like it is on your left and engine 2 sounds like it's on your right. The sound.cfg file in the A36 file has none so in the A36, the engiine sounds like it is ahead of you, as it should.

Indeed the panning numbers (currently panning=-5000 for left and =5000 for right) could be changed to give personality to each aircraft.

The only "problem" that can occur from doing this is that it will take a little longer to load an aircraft. For most of us that is 3 blinks of an eye rather than 2 blinks.

We might do the same kind of thing for turboprops and fanjets.

By the way, this still works with aliasing. If you make this change, you don't have to rush around doing anything to the dozens of aircraft that alias the baron sound. Those aliases will operate just as they did. The sim looks into the file you aliases (ie- the baron) and gets the sound.cfg out of there. Then it goes looking for all the wav files listed in the sound.cfg file and finds them all in the general sound folder for FS9.
« Last Edit: May 14th, 2008, 7:48pm by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.154 216.180.4.32

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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #11 on: May 15th, 2008, 4:35pm » Quote Modify Remove

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Just as I thought I knew what I was doing, a strangeness has occurred. Last night I made a nice sound for the Baron, essentially two A36 files working together with panning for the left and right engines. I set up my files as I had suggested - all Baron wave files in the main FS sound folder and then put individual sound.cfg files in the sound folders for each aircraft. Then i began tweaking the sounds for two of the Commanders I have: the AC560 with geared props and the Rockwell Shrike with direct-drive props. But I encountered the strangeness. The sound starts fine on takeoff getting loud as we reach full rpm and then the prop sound goes away at 50 KIAS and stays away until we reach 110 KIAS during climb. At that point it comes back and stays through the remainder of the flight.

I have been trying very hard to figure out what I did. I went back to the Baron and repeated a few takeoffs and found the prop sound stays firm through the takeoff and the rest of the flight. Then I put my developed sound file for the Baron back into the Shrike. The prop sound still cuts out at 50 kias!

So we have one sound file behaving differently in two aircraft. There's a strangeness about that!
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Hans_Petter
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #12 on: May 16th, 2008, 4:08pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I've got all the files you sent us and I'll test them all when I get time. I may even get time for some tweaking. However, since my sim time is limited I'm going to wait until you've resolved the issues before I delete local wave files and move them all to the "global" sound folder.

Regarding the unwanted silence at 50 kias, here's my thoughts: Various wave files are called as the engine rpm and speed change. There might be a missing or corrupt file that should have kicked in at 50 kias. Or, it might be that there's a glitch in the command segments that leaves a a phase of flight with no sound file being called. For instance, if sound A goes from zero to 40 kias and sound B from 50 - 60 kias we'll get the sound of silence from 40 - 50 kias. A third option might be overlapping sound segments with two wave files cancelling out of phase.
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Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #13 on: May 16th, 2008, 7:01pm » Quote Modify Remove

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Why would it lose the sound in the Aero Commander and not in the Baron. The exact same sound file was used the last time.

There is one sound that could be doing the deed here. It is the wind sound. It kicks in at 40 KIAS. It could cause an overload where the system can only handle a certain volume level and kicks out until the level drops back to accepeted limits.

But again, the fact that the same file works differently in two different aircraft is astonishing. This file has everything - the prop sounds, the engine sounds, the gear, flaps, wind and even gyro sounds.

You can go ahead and rearrange the files. It makes no difference what sound.cfg file is used. It will make it easy to use the Baron and the A36 with the new sound.cfg files. There is no problem with those installations.

Of course, if we come up with a fix like a different wind function, it will have to be changed everywhere we have the new sound.cfg file.

The situation could very well be like I have in my music synthesizer. I have 8 tracks and can put several instruments (generally up to four) on each track. But only 16 different voices can be heard at once. So it's easy to get into a situation where the trombone, trumpet and violin sections are playing and then the piano plays a solo and pushes two or three of the oldest voices "out of business" for a while.
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2008, 7:19pm by Tom Goodrick » 216.180.4.149

Tom Goodrick
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Re: FS Sound Files
« Reply #14 on: May 16th, 2008, 11:31pm » Quote Modify Remove

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I should clarify what the sound does in the Aero Commander. It does not cease. The new prop sound becomes lost in the hum of the engines so that the overall sound goes from a wop wop prop plus a machinery hum to buzz and then a louder hum at 50 KIAS and then picks up the buzz again about 120 KIAS.

Tonight I checked that the problem did not happen in the baron but did happen in the Aero Commander and the Shrike. I changed the wind files and there was no difference. I made the Shrike prop sound louder and the loss of the buzz still happened at 50 but it came back at 120 and stayed for the duration. I put the Baron sound.cfg in the Aerostar 700 and boosted the volume. It worked fine like the Baron with no loss of the buzz. But you do notice the sound in the Aerostar. This is the way it is supposed to work. So now with only one copy in memory of all the Baron wav files, I can get different sounds in the Baron, Aero Commanders and Aerostar. Plus I have two different sounds in the Bonaza A36 and V35B. They all use the same core wav files.
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Hans van Beilen's Virtual Cockpit Page
Bill's "Trains, Planes and Buses"
Tony Smith's MSFS Gateway
Bluegrass Virtual Airlines
Charlie Wood's Flight Sim Navigation
Bluegrass Airlines Forum
DC-3 Airways

Post by Tom Goodrick on Sept 4, 2008 9:55:52 GMT -5

Post by Tom Goodrick on Sept 4, 2008 9:59:21 GMT -5